Johnson suggests ‘unsocially distanced farewell gatherings’ were allowed at work under Covid guidanceThis is what Boris Johnson said to Sir Bernard Jenkin when Jenkin asked him what he would have said if he had been asked what he would say to any business that wanted to hold “unsocially distanced farewell gatherings” during lockdown.
Johnson replied:
I would have said it is up to organisations, as the guidance says, to decide how they are going to implement the guidance amongst them. Where they can’t do social distancing perfectly, they can’t maintain two metres or one metre, they are entitled to have mitigations. And we did indeed have plenty of mitigations.
(I don’t think anyone did ask during the press conferences if crowded leaving dos were OK under the rules. That is because, to most people, the answer was obvious. And although Johnson claims he would have answered in these terms, Prof Sir Chris Whitty would surely have given a very different answer.)
Key events
2m agoJohnson suggests he should have told MPs following guidance did not, to him, meaning following it perfectly
13m agoJohnson says by 8 December 2021 he realised he was getting ‘conflicting information’ about Christmas drinks year before
45m agoBoris Johnson says birthday gathering in June 2020 was ‘reasonably necessary’ for work purposes
1h agoJohnson suggests ‘unsocially distanced farewell gatherings’ were allowed at work under Covid guidance
1h ago22 Tory MPs vote against government on NI protocol deal, division list reveals
1h agoJohnson says Covid guidance allowed exemptions, and Jenkin says if he had said this to MPs, inquiry might not be happening
2h agoSunak wins vote on Northern Ireland protocol deal, with only 29 MPs voting against
2h agoJohnson suggests Harriet Harman, the privileges committee chair, is biased against him
2h agoJohnson says committee is in effect accusing civil servants and advisers of ‘lying’ about Partygate too
2h agoJohnson evidence paused as MPs vote on NI protocol
2h agoJohnson says if it should have been obvious to him rules were broken, it should have been obvious to Rishi Sunak too
2h agoJohnson claims privileges committee’s approach to publishing evidence ‘manifestly unfair’
2h agoJohnson says Sue Gray told him twice she did not think Partygate events passed ‘threshold of criminality’
2h agoJohnson tells MPs – ‘hand on heart, I did not lie to the house’
2h agoJohnson swears oath promising to tell truth as he commences his evidence
3h agoPrivileges committee ‘make kangaroo courts look respectable’, says Rees-Mogg
3h agoRees-Mogg says he will vote against NI protocol deal even though Stormont brake ‘could be useful’
3h agoPMQs – snap verdict
5h agoERG says it is advising its members to vote against Sunak’s NI protocol deal
5h agoDrinking wine in garden during work meeting within Covid rules, Johnson told Sue Gray
6h agoSteve Baker says Johnson risks being seen as ‘pound shop Nigel Farage because of stance on Northern Ireland protocol
6h agoJohnson ‘often’ joined Friday night drinks in press office and could have ‘shut them down’ if he wanted, MPs told
6h agoJohnson ignored advice from senior official not to tell MPs all Covid guidance was followed, evidence shows
6h agoCabinet secretary Simon Case says he never told Johnson all Covid rules and guidance were followed in No 10
7h ago’I don’t know what we say about the flat’ – new Partygate evidence raises fresh questions for Johnson
7h agoJohnson urges Sunak to revive confrontational approach to EU as he confirms he will vote against protocol deal
7h agoCommons privileges committee publishes evidence bundle ahead of Johnson’s evidence session
7h agoLiz Truss to vote against Sunak’s Northern Ireland protocol deal
8h agoBoris Johnson says he will vote against Rishi Sunak’s Brexit deal as he prepares to face Partygate inquiry
Johnson suggests he should have told MPs following guidance did not, to him, meaning following it perfectlyQ: Do you accept that you were told by Martin Reynolds not to say guidance was followed at all times? (See 10.20am.)
Johnson says Reynolds was being cautious. But he was talking about social distancing at No 10, he says.
The division bell has gone off. But Harriet Harman says they don’t need to vote, and so the session continues.
Johnson says Reynolds was not saying the guidance was not being followed. They were following the guidance with mitigation.
Q: Given that you said you would take out the reference to guidance, do you think you should have corrected the record?
No, says Johnson. He says he did not think anyone had broken the guidance.
Q: In your written statement you say perfect compliance with the guidance was not necessary. If so, why did you not tell the Commons at the time?
Johnson says that is a “very good question”. As Bernard Jenkin said earlier (see 3.08pm), he says, it might have been better if he had spelt out to MPs when he meant by saying the guidance was followed at all time.
In his statement yesterday Johnson said:
It was not always possible to observe perfect social distancing. As I have explained above, that was envisaged and provided for in the guidance.
Johnson says by 8 December 2021 he realised he was getting ‘conflicting information’ about Christmas drinks year beforeQ: Why did you not tell the Commons there had been other events in No 10?
Johnson says he did not think they were of concern, or were against the rules and guidance.
Q: The following week, the night before PMQs, ITV published the Allegra Stratton video. What did you do in the week between 1 December and 8 December to prepare for further questions on this?
Johnson says, when the Stratton video emerged, he decided he was getting “conflicting information” about what happened at the event on 18 December 2020. He asked the cabinet secretary to conduct an inquiry.
Harriet Harman says they have considered the rules and guidance at the time, his knowledge of that, and his attendance at events.
Now they will focus on what he told MPs.
Andy Carter (Con) is asking the questions now.
Q: The Daily Mirror approached No 10 on 30 November 2021 about lockdown-busting parties. You must have expected to be asked about this at PMQs, and you were. You said all guidance was followed at No 10. You knew what the guidance was. And you knew there had been events where social distancing was not maintained, and masks were not worn. So why did you tell MPs all guidance was followed?
Johnson says there was no guidance for masks indoors.
Q: That would have been mitigation.
Johnson says no one raised concerns about this before then.
He says he spoke to Jack Doyle, his then communications director, about the event (the press office pre-Christmas do). He says he asked Doyle to describe it. It was a horrendous and difficult evening, with the Kent variant taking off. People were sitting at their desks. They were drinking, but that was allowed. He says:
I concluded that it sounded to me that the event was both within the rules and the guidance.
He said the guidance had been followed completely within No 10. He was misremembering the line put out by the press office. He says he did not think the public made a distinction between rules and guidance.
Q: Why did you not correct the record if you said guidance instead of rules?
Johnson says he did not think there was any “appreciable difference”.
Dorans is now asking about the event in the press office (a pre-Christmas party, according to some accounts) in No 10 on 18 December 2020.
Johnson says he was not aware of that happening. He did not hear it.
Q: Did anyone tell you about it afterwards?
No, says Johnson. In the year that followed, “the thing was a complete blank to me”.
Allan Dorans (SNP) is asking the questions now.
He asks about a leaving do on 14 January 2021. A picture was included in the committee’s report earlier this month. He says the Met imposed fines in relation to this.
Johnson says this involved people who worked together every day. He mentions the names of the two officials, and then says he should not have named them. People met there briefly. It was his job to thank them, and show them they were appreciated, he says.
Here is the picture.
No 10 event Photograph: Privileges committeeQ: A witness said it was not necessary for work. The quote is on page 47 of the evidence bundle.
Johnson says he does not agree.
Fovargue says Lee Cain, communications director at the time, objected to the idea of having a drinks event in the No 10 garden in May 2020.
Johnson says Cain raised concerns about the optics.
Q: Why would he have been concerned about the optics if was within the rules?
Johnson says he might have been worried about people seeing it happening.
Q: Cain says now the event was purely social.
Johnson says he does not recall Cain saying that at the time.
Boris Johnson says birthday gathering in June 2020 was ‘reasonably necessary’ for work purposesHarriet Harman says they now want to ask about the events in May and June in 2020.
Yvonne Fovargue (Lab) is asking the questions now.
She starts with the 19 June gathering in the cabinet room – the impromptu birthday event. At least 17 people were there, she says, including his wife and interior designer.
Johnson says his wife and son were there, and a “contractor who was in the building” attended very briefly.
Q: Why did they have to be there for work purposes?
Johnson says he thought this was reasonably necessary for work purposes because he was standing at his desk, and about to have a meeting.
Q: Presumably your wife and the contractor were not attending that meeting?
Johnson says at No 10 the PM’s family have access to the building.
Q: Shouldn’t it have been obvious that they were not there?
No, says Johnson. He says the press office publicised the fact it took place. No one said it should not have taken place. And Rishi Sunak was there too, he says.
Jenkin says the guidance said people should only attend workplace events in person if it was necessary for them to be there.
Johnson says the guidance said that was usually the case.
Johnson claims it is “unlikely” that he said, at a particular leaving do, that it was the “the most unsocially distanced gathering in the UK right now”.
The hearing has resumed. Bernard Jenkin asks about an event, and Boris Johnson suggests fewer people were there than Jenkin suggested, saying Sue Gray said just 15 or 20.
Jenkin jokes about Johnson now relying on Sue Gray.
That is a reference to his allies saying three weeks ago that her report was now unreliable because she was going to work for Keir Starmer.
Johnson suggests ‘unsocially distanced farewell gatherings’ were allowed at work under Covid guidanceThis is what Boris Johnson said to Sir Bernard Jenkin when Jenkin asked him what he would have said if he had been asked what he would say to any business that wanted to hold “unsocially distanced farewell gatherings” during lockdown.
Johnson replied:
I would have said it is up to organisations, as the guidance says, to decide how they are going to implement the guidance amongst them. Where they can’t do social distancing perfectly, they can’t maintain two metres or one metre, they are entitled to have mitigations. And we did indeed have plenty of mitigations.
(I don’t think anyone did ask during the press conferences if crowded leaving dos were OK under the rules. That is because, to most people, the answer was obvious. And although Johnson claims he would have answered in these terms, Prof Sir Chris Whitty would surely have given a very different answer.)
22 Tory MPs vote against government on NI protocol deal, division list revealsTwenty-two Conservative MPs voted against the government on the Northern Ireland protocol deal, the division list reveals. The full list of names is here.
There were also 48 Tory MPs who did not vote. Some of them will have had permission not to vote, but some will have been abstaining intentionally.
The division bell has just gone off. There is another vote, this time on the public order bill.
That means we’ve got another 15 minute break.
Jenkin says in other places around the country people were not having leaving dos. So why was it acceptable in No 10?
Johnson says that event was not a party.
Jenkin says he did not call it a party.
Johnson says he did earlier on.
Q: So if you had been asked at a press conference to hold unsocially distanced events in a workplace, what would you have said?
Johnson says he would have urged people where possible to observe the 2-metre rule.
Jenkin says the pictures from the Lee Cain leaving event do not show any work being done.
Johnson says he believes events like this were necessary for work.
Johnson says Covid guidance allowed exemptions, and Jenkin says if he had said this to MPs, inquiry might not be happeningJenkin asks Johnson to confirm that, the fact that people were standing close together, meant the guidance was not being followed.
Johnson does not accept that. He says the guidance allowed exemptions.
It did not mean to me that we breached the guidance. It means that we were following the guidance to the best of our ability, which was what the guidance provided for. And the guidance provides for freedoms within the practical framework of the operation, or the business, to decide how you’re going to implement the guidance.
Jenkin says, if Johnson said this to the House of Commons, instead of saying the guidance was followed at all times, they would probably not be sitting here having this inquiry.
(Johnson’s argument, also set out in his statement yesterday, seems to be that the guidance allowed you to ignore the guidance.)
Sir Bernard Jenkin (Con) is leading the questions now.
He starts by asking Johnson to confirm that he understood the “hands, face, space” guidance. Johnson confirms he did.
Jenkin asks about the photographs from the 13 November event (the Lee Cain leaving drinks). People were standing close together. Jenkin says this shows guidance was being ignored.
Johnson says, as he argued in his opening statement, it was not always possible to maintain that distancing in No 10.
This is what he said on this in his opening statement:
What was in my head, was based on my understanding of the rules and the guidance. That did not mean that I believed that social distancing was complied with perfectly. That is because I and others in the building did not believe that it was necessary or possible to have a 2-metre or after June 24 2020 1-metre electrified forcefield around every human being. Indeed, that is emphatically not what the guidance prescribes.
It specifically says that social distancing should be maintained where possible, having regard to the work environment, and it is clear that in No 10 we had real difficulties in both working efficiently and at speed and in maintaining perfect social distancing. It is a cramped, narrow, 18th-century townhouse. We had no choice but to meet, day in, day out, seven days a week, in an unrelenting battle against Covid. I had to call meetings on the spot, and to take a great many high-speed decisions.